Cultivating Resilience Against Racial Stressors

When Dr. Rheeda L. Walker graced our Anacostia bookstore, we embarked on a profound journey into the heart of African-American mental health. Her inspiring story, from the roots of Savannah, Georgia to the penning of "The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health," offers a lifeline to those navigating the complexities of wellbeing within the Black community. It's not just a discussion; it's an exploration of the layers beneath our daily struggles and the strategies that can lead us toward healing.

As we unpack the insidious effects of racism on both mental and physical health, the conversation turns to actionable remedies. It's not enough to recognize the problem; we need tools to counteract it. Enter the power of deep breathing—a profound simplicity that can transform our stress responses. With a guided session to illustrate its impact, we bring this practice to your ears, empowering you with a technique to use whenever life's pressures mount.

Finally, we investigate the interwoven fabric of generational mental health, considering how our media consumption and digital habits shape our psyche. Incremental changes, Dr. Walker suggests, can lead to monumental shifts in our mental landscape. And through the joy of music and writing, we find a personal resonance that uplifts and inspires. It's an episode that celebrates the small victories, the power of presence, and the communal spirit of sharing wisdom to light our paths forward.

Discover a world of Black Literature
Visit MahoganyBooks and use code 'Front Row' to save 10% on your first purchase. #BlackBooksMatter

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Mahogany Books Podcast Network, your gateway to the world of African-American literature. We're proud to present a collection of podcasts dedicated to exploring the depth and richness of African-American literature. Immerse yourself in podcasts like Black Books Matter, the Podcast where we learn about the books and major life moments that influence today's top writers, or tune in to Real Ballads Read, where brothers Jan and Miles invite amazing people to talk about the meaningful books in their lives. So whether you're a literature enthusiast, an advocate for social justice or simply curious about the untold stories that shape our world, subscribe to the Mahogany Books Podcast Network on your favorite platform and let African-American literature ignite your passion. Alright, welcome to Mahogany Books Official Book event. My name is Brianna. I'm Operations Manager here at our Anacostia store. I'm very excited for tonight's event, so I'm gonna go ahead and shoot through the intro and then I'm gonna let Dr Walker do the rest of the talking.

Speaker 1: 1:07

We are fortunate to have with us today Dr Rita Walker, a University of Houston professor, psychologist and leading expert in African-American health. She has appeared as a guest expert on Good Morning America, the Breakfast Club and NPR, and also been cited in major news outlets such as the Washington Post, the New York Times, la Times and the Houston Chronicle. Dr Rita is the author of the highly acclaimed, unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, where she offers insight on the mental health crisis in the black community, along with tools and strategies for practicing emotional wellness. Dr Walker is a Georgia native who now claims Houston, texas, as home. Can I get a big round of applause for Dr Rita Walker? Are you having some mic? I'm just gonna Wonderful.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Can you all hear me okay, though, as you know, I'm a university professor so I could probably talk loud enough without the mic, but I will use it because it helps with our technology, so I will do my part. Good evening, you all. Thank you all so much for being here this evening and being interested in this conversation on black mental health. Would it also, would it be okay with technology if I stood up for a bit, because I kind of feel better standing up. The floor is more so I guess I'll start with a little bit about who I am and how I came to be here and to write the unapologetic guide to black mental health. I grew up in Savannah, georgia, with both of my parents and, by the way, thank you to my family who is here this evening my aunt and uncle and cousin, who live locally and who are here with us tonight. But I grew up with my family and one of the things that I learned, just like a lot of folks, was no matter what's going on, you just keep pushing, like. No matter what the stressful situation is, you hold your head up, you figure it out and you just keep moving. So I grew up in a primarily African-American community, african-american primarily schools, church, all the things. And when I went off to college, one of the things that I observed was that the undergraduate textbook didn't seem to talk much about us. The way that they talked about psychology and mental health didn't seem to include our reality. And so when I went to grad school to earn my PhD at Florida State go Knowles I was thinking, okay, this is where I'm going to learn about black mental health. And it just still didn't exist. And so fast forward to me wanting to specifically understand about depression and what depression looked like for African-Americans. And I couldn't find anyone who was looking at depression at the time. But there was a gentleman who was doing suicide research and I thought, well, that doesn't apply to the black community, but I'll go look at the literature. And that's when I saw the rates were going up, y'all. That was the mid-90s. Fast forward a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 4:36

And what prompted me to write the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health was what seemed to be a breakdown, like a breakdown in our community and crisis, especially with our young people. But for me, working with young people meant talking to parents and teachers and aunties and all those folks, and so I wrote the book for those folks because, in my mind, if we could all collectively think about our well-being and think about it in different ways and not think about it as I'm in crisis or I'm about to have a breakdown or I'm good Because there's a lot of variability between the two and if we could better recognize when we're getting to a place where we could be vulnerable, then we could withstand that and then be in a better place to help the young people. And so that's why I wrote the first book. The response to it has been bigger than I ever could have imagined. I had to write the book as if I was talking to one or two particular people, and for the most part those people were folks like me who had a child, who was a child, who had a child, who was married, who was a professional trying to figure out life, because then I could write with a singular voice.

Speaker 2: 5:54

But when I tell you all that I have had communications with 13-year-olds who said the book helped them. A friend of mine mentioned that her 80-something-year-old uncle passes the book out to just people, and this is in Houston, so I'm living in Houston now. He passes the book out, and so she brought a stack of books for me to sign so that her 80-something-year-old uncle could pass out the book. The publisher my editor, who was a white male, said oh my goodness, the book helped me. So the book has reached folks that I never intended and never expected, and so what it said to me was that I must be on to something, and one of the things that people have said is that, well, you talk about mental health in a way that makes sense, and that was the intention, because I've written, you know, more than 60 scientific papers, but folks aren't really trying to read those. They just, honestly, they aren't that interesting. But what folks are trying to understand is how do I make my life better and the life of the people around me better? You know, from day to day and, I think, being a first-generation college student so neither one of my parents went to college and even earning a PhD no one in the family had a PhD I think that because of my background, I understood the importance of being able to talk to folks who maybe weren't college-educated but still deserve to be psychologically healthy. So I'm curious I don't want to put you all on blast or anything but how many of you have actually read at least a chapter, at least a chapter of the book. Ok, yeah, it's very good.

Speaker 2: 7:29

So one of the things that I introduce is this idea of psychological fortitude in the book, and I did that because I know that we don't like to talk about mental health per se. At the same time, it's funny to me that we need our minds. Like I can't think of a single thing that we need to do, and if any of you have any suggestions, I can't think of a single thing that we need to do or accomplish for which we don't need our minds. But somehow we act as if. Well, if I'm feeling really anxious or if I'm feeling really depressed, I don't really need help. I'm just going to keep pushing. In the Black community, when folks have mental health challenges, what do we say to do? Man up and pray and get over it and all of those things. Anything, but talk to a professional because you don't want to go tell those people your business, right. And so, knowing all of this, I had to set the book up in such a way that folks who maybe someone would buy a copy of the book for someone else and a lot of folks I know have done that kind of like the uncle I told you all about. And so they did that because they understood.

Speaker 2: 8:42

About psychological fortitude, it's like I don't really talk about mental health much in the book. If I use the language it's because I'm citing some statistics. Otherwise, I talk about this notion of psychological fortitude. That is the 0 to 10 rating, and I actually don't define it in the first book but I do define it in the workbook, if you've picked it up just yet. The 0 to 10 rating of your ability to just be able to think. Have you ever just been so overwhelmed? I just can't even think right now and you just feel stuck. That's our mind just struggling in that moment.

Speaker 2: 9:17

So our capacity to think, our capacity to manage our emotions because sometimes we just get overwhelmed with whatever the situation may be Capacity to take care of our families, to take care of our work responsibilities, to take care of school responsibilities, to take care of our health Many of you all know we have a lot of chronic health conditions in our community. But if we are depressed then it's going to be hard to go for that walk. The doctors say you got to go walk, you got to exercise. Nobody feels like doing that if you're overwhelmed and depressed, and to also be able to tap into your life purpose. I truly believe that every one of us has a life purpose and that life purpose ends up being our guiding light. But if someone, as an example, is living at about I don't know a five or a four or so on most days, is that person going to have capacity to tap into purpose? Probably not. They're just trying to get from day to day.

Speaker 2: 10:24

And so in the book in the first book I try to walk through these are the things that will bring our PF psychological fortitude down, because we are so accustomed in our community to struggle, struggle at the bank, struggle with police officers, struggle, struggle. We're so accustomed to it that we don't always recognize the impact that it has on us. So I spend a lot of time in that first book talking about that, in addition to talking about some skills. But with the workbook it's as if you get to be in a session with me walking through different questions, different activities, different prompts, things that I would do as a psychologist with someone in session, and that's what the workbook does and it kind of stands on its own.

Speaker 2: 11:12

I was in New York a few weeks ago and there were people who were asking like, well, do I need both? And I didn't want to be a salesperson, but I was kind of thinking. I think so, because the first book tells you why you need the second book, because one of the things that I've heard from folks is that they just felt like something wasn't right, but they couldn't quite put language to it, and so the first book gave them the language, like, ok, I get it now. And the second book says OK, here are some things that you can do, and it's important because, as you all know, a lot of folks are reticent to get professional help. And then guess what? If you decide you want to talk to a professional, you may not find someone that you're comfortable talking to, and even if you find that person, the wait list is going to be two months long, and so it helps to have some strategies In fact, one chapter I call clutch skills.

Speaker 2: 12:12

I hear some things that I am overwhelmed in this moment. What are some things that I can do? Because when we get in crisis, what happens is that we just feel stuck, like I'm overwhelmed. I can't talk to nobody. If I try to talk to that person, they're gonna tell me to go pray about it. If I go and talk to this person, they're gonna say it's not that bad and so it helps for people to have strategies and skills on their own.

Speaker 2: 12:38

I'm not necessarily tracking my time, but I want to make sure that we have time to actually do one of the skills that I talk about in the book. It's one of my favorite things in the whole world and we're gonna do about ten minutes worth of activity and I'm hoping that you all won't won't fall asleep, and you'll see why I say that. I do think that Conversations about mental health have Evolved, and certainly I think, starting during the pandemic, that people started to well, one people were stressed out At the height of the pandemic and then, second of all, folks didn't have their usual outlets you know, happy hour, church, mosque, you know couldn't go anywhere. So we were kind of at home with our stress and sometimes with the people who were stressing us out the most, and so the mental health was really starting to bubble over during the pandemic. And so I think that because we were starting to have a lot of explicit conversations About mental health and you know celebrity folks like Charlemagne the god, taraji P Henson, who've talked about their own mental health we're starting to have some more conversations, but it's still it's still pretty stigmatized.

Speaker 2: 13:55

I still meet a lot of people who will say you know, you think talking to a professional like that would really help. And what I will say to them is well, it depends. It depends on whether you get someone you're comfortable talking to. It depends on whether or not they have the skills. It depends on whether or not they're using evidence, evidence-based practice. I think by the time I get to the third, it depends, they're like, okay, never mind. And so that's why it helps to have a workbook like the unapologetic workbook. I have a third project that's actually coming out in a few months, but you all have to follow me on social media To hear more about that. But I think the other thing that helps, you know, with the the stigma, is conversations like this and Folks who are willing to invest in their own mental health and also to talk to people around them. And so the more that we have really very, I guess, honest conversations, the more will de-stigmatize mental health in the black community. But I still think that we have a good, a good ways to go, and so at this point, I think I'm gonna do my exercise and I'm gonna sit down, because it actually requires that I sit. If you feel comfortable, I'm actually gonna ask you to close your eyes. I'm gonna close my eyes, I'm going to tell you. Actually, you know what? Don't close your eyes just yet. Even if you feel a little sleepy, don't don't wake up. Yeah, okay, you with me? Do you all know of rock? Oh, shoot, rock Creek. You all know rock, rock Creek. No, no, who knows rock Creek? Okay, yeah, come on rock Creek. So rock Creek is a is a park not too far, oh, okay, okay, the park. Oh, I gotta say rock Creek Park. Oh, my bad, I Live in Houston, y'all, I live in, I live in Houston. Okay, what'd you say? Oh, that's another. Who's the song by Blackburn? Okay, very good, okay.

Speaker 2: 16:01

So one of the ways that Racism and discrimination can get to us is that we're not necessarily Prepared for it when it happens. I don't think anything can quite prepare you, despite your age, with some of the things that have happened in our society, and so when I talk to people about deep breathing, you know I get this response like breathing, like how in the world is breathing Going to help me? So one of the things I will say about the workbook is that I try to make the skills and strategies as Simple as possible, knowing that people are sometimes over, so overwhelmed they don't even think about a strategy. They just want to use certain words and maybe do other things that aren't as helpful for their, for their well-being, and so I just I just lost track of my own, my own thought. And so Let me come back, rock Creek Park. Where was I going with that? Okay, have you all heard of the fighter flight response? So you're paying attention in, like you know, fifth grade and fighter flight.

Speaker 2: 17:04

Imagine you're in Rock Creek Park and it's it's Nighttime. I don't know why you're there at nighttime, but it's nighttime, it's dark and you're walking your by yourself and you hear something. Your body tenses up. Some people freeze, some people get ready to run. That I won't always work out for us in the movies, but some folks get ready to run, other folks get ready to fight. In Order to do that, your body gears up. Your heart, you know, starts to race. Your breathing Changes, also your indecrant system, like there are all sorts of changes that happen in your body. Because your body has to get ready for this threat With racism. Your body doesn't know that there's nothing there. There's a person who may be a racist individual. Your body doesn't know that. Your body just knows threat. So your body Gears up to get ready to fight, or it may freeze, or you may get ready to run.

Speaker 2: 18:06

We see a lot of hypertension in our community because we have dysregulated bodily systems, because of the, the racism in part. Of course there's, you know, diminishes of it that are that's genetic, but the body doesn't know. And so we have dysregulated Bodily systems because we're always like trying to figure out, like, okay, fight, no, run, whatever. And so what deep breathing does is that when a situation or circumstance happens that is threatening, that is upsetting, that is infuriating, once you realize what's happening, you can take deep breathing. You can take deep breaths to regulate your system, to calm things down, like it's okay. I know we had a panic moment for just a second, but we're gonna bring things back down. And I love deep breathing because you can do it anytime. You can do it in Traffic, is you can't close your eyes, you can't do that part, but you can do it at any time and it's always accessible. You don't even have to pull out a workbook or a phone, you can just calm yourself in the moment.

Speaker 2: 19:05

So I want to walk us through a deep breathing exercise. That is my absolute favorite thing to do. I could do a deep breathing exercise for 30 minutes easily, but we're gonna do about 8 to 9, let's see how it goes. So go ahead and close your eyes. If you have anything in your in your lap, maybe try and put it beside you, because you want your hands resting in your lap, you want your feet flat on the floor and I promise I'm just gonna walk you through every step. So I know there are some overachievers in here. I can tell you, don't have to watch me Because I have my eyes closed, because that allows me to focus better on my body, and that's what's most important is being able to focus on yourself. So you're seated, your feet are flat, maybe rest your back against the back of your chair, your hands are in your lap or maybe by your side, wherever it is most comfortable for you.

Speaker 2: 20:02

And In just a moment I'm going to ask you to take a deep breath and when you do that, you're going to breathe how we call Diaphragmatically. So you're gonna pretend like your stomach is a balloon and when you take air in Through your nose, you're gonna push your stomach out as if it's a balloon expanding with air. Now I'm gonna tell you, for some of us that's gonna be uncomfortable because that's not how we're accustomed to breathing. We're accustomed to breathing in a way that the doctor says take a deep breath. You go, you take a deep breath with your chest and that's not how we're supposed to breathe. And if you ever have an opportunity to see a baby in a crib, you see their bubble stomach just raising really high and then it deflates. That's how we're all supposed to breathe, but we've gotten really lazy over time and that's okay.

Speaker 2: 20:55

I say all of that to let you know. It's going to feel uncomfortable, but the more that you do it over time, you'll start to realize how much more natural it actually is for you. So go ahead here, take a deep breath in through your nose and push out your stomach as if you are blowing a balloon, and then blow all of that air out through your mouth, and then your balloon goes back flat because you've blown out all of that air. Continue to breathe in this way, taking air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth, making sure that you're expanding your stomach, your stomach balloon, as you take the air in and then you're expelling all of that air out through your mouth, and I want you to continue to be mindful of this breathing as you're taking the air in through your nose and then blowing all of that air out through your mouth, and again, it may feel uncomfortable for some, but just roll with it and just blow in out that air as comfortably as you can, because as you're breathing, I want you to notice any tension that you may have in your body. Let's actually start just above your eyebrows. Just notice if you have any pressure or any tension just above your eyebrows. And as you're taking that air in through your nose and holding it for maybe just a moment and then blowing it all the way out through your mouth, tell yourself to release that tension from your eyebrows Maybe your left eyebrow, maybe your right eyebrow but as you're exhaling, tell yourself to release that tension. Let's check your jaw Some people hold tension and tightness in their jaw and as you're breathing deeply, taking that air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth, tell yourself to release that tension from your jaw.

Speaker 2: 22:58

Another popular place that we like to carry tension is in the back of our neck, and so, as you're breathing deeply, taking air in through your nose and blowing it all out through your mouth, tell yourself to release that tension in your neck, and it may even be comfortable for you to let your head fall over so that that tension can fully release itself from your neck. Let's go ahead and check some of the other areas of your body, maybe the back of your arm and maybe on the left side first, and then maybe on the right side. Check your left wrist and check your right wrist. As you're taking air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth, tell yourself to release that tension that you feel in your left arm, in your right arm, your left wrist and your right wrist. One of my favorite places to carry tension is in my low back. So notice if you have any tension or any tightness at all in your low back and, as you're breathing deeply, taking air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth, tell yourself to release that tension that you feel in your low back. Maybe there are other places for you, maybe your right hip, maybe your left hip, maybe the back of your right knee or the back of your left knee. Just notice if you have any tension there and, as you're breathing deeply, taking air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth, tell yourself to release those tensions. In just a moment, I'm going to ask that you take three deep breaths and, as you do, you're going to release tension from your body and you're going to take the air in through your nose, as you've done before, and blow it out through your mouth. Go ahead and take that first deep breath here, in through your nose and expelling all of that air out through your mouth, your stomach balloon going as flat as possible. Go ahead and take a second deep breath, with the air going into your nose and blowing it all out through your mouth, and then take a third deep breath here, taking that air in through your nose and blowing it out through your mouth. And as you blow out that last breath of air, tell yourself to release all of the tension from your body through the bottom of your feet. Okay, you all still with me. You can open your eyes.

Speaker 2: 25:49

One thing I will say about you all feel good, you feel a little relaxed. For those who have trouble sleeping, you can use that exercise to relax yourself at night when it's time to go to bed. One of the other things that I talk about in the workbook is for people who like to. You know you get in bed and as soon as you get in bed, your mind starts racing. You think about all the things you need to do, that you can take time before you do your deep breathing exercise. Write down all those things, then do your exercise and good night, because we have to clear our minds and clear the tension from our bodies in order to be able to rest. And the thing about rest is that it affects our PF, because if we're not getting at least seven hours of sleep at night, that's going to affect our psychological fortitude, because our physical body and our minds are fully connected.

Speaker 2: 26:40

One other thing I will say about the breathing before we stop for questions is I could tell that they're the overachiever folks. I can tell who you are because when I open my eyes and I saw you, I could tell you still had the tension in your body because you were trying to do it just right, like I got to get the breathing just right. And I get it because I'm an overachiever too. I actually have this. I have a nine minute or maybe ten minute on my YouTube of the deep breathing exercise, and so you can practice it when you're by yourself, alone and quiet.

Speaker 2: 27:12

You don't care what your posture looks like and you don't have to focus, because the importance of the exercise is two things. One is taking your mind away from whatever that stressful situation was. That said, threat in the first place, because if you're focused on your body, you're not thinking about the threat. And the other part really is being able to breathe diaphragmatically, because that's how we get the most oxygenated blood, because we've gotten the best air into our bodies. So with that, thank you all so much for your participation and your attention. And so what questions can I answer?

Speaker 1: 27:53

for you. If you want to just raise your hand, I'm going to pass over the mic so we make sure we get all the audio.

Speaker 4: 28:10

Good evening. Thank you very much, dr Walker. My name is Kevin Jefferson. I'm a podiatrist here in the district and as a podiatrist in a predominantly African American community I see a lot of chronic disease you touched upon that in your opening especially diabetes, obesity and a lot of things, and what a lot of colleagues of mine, a lot of people, don't understand is the mental aspect of having a chronic disease and part of that, and how it really affects our community and how there's a lot of practitioners, doctors, who don't really understand that and that's why we have noncompliance, nonadherence and all these other kind of things. Could you touch on that a little bit?

Speaker 2: 28:52

That's one of my favorite things to talk about, because I know that we are actually much more comfortable talking about chronic illness. You know our sugar, you know our hypertension, like we talk about those things. And so in my mind, if we can connect the depression to those things because about 50% of people who have chronic illness suffer from depression those statistics are consistent. And it's unfortunate because I don't think a lot of health professionals, health professionals, aren't expected to assess depression. But if you say to someone, yeah, I need for you to exercise and a meal plan and all those things like that's a lot to ask of a person and they don't necessarily have the energy to physically take care of themselves. And so I talk about that because in my mind I'm thinking okay, if we can get a coalition of health professionals who can also talk about and assess mental health, then maybe we will get more compliance. I don't know it's a theory of mine, but maybe we will have more compliance for our physical health when folks have their mental health better, in better sync I can't find the word I'm looking for right now, but for a lot of us we don't know those statistics about depression and chronic illness, but it's something that I talk about in the book as low key suicide and I don't remember what chapter it was because of the untreated depression and folks who start to feel like maybe life just doesn't matter as much for me as it does for other people.

Speaker 2: 30:32

But I think that if we can start to bring more of the mental health into the physical health conversations then maybe we will have more compliance for people who have chronic illness. I appreciate what you do and I appreciate that question. I hope I answered it for you.

Speaker 1: 30:51

Any other hands Hands question.

Speaker 5: 31:00

Dr Walker.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Hey Uncle.

Speaker 5: 31:03

LeRon, good to see you. I'm really proud of you, thank you. I'm going to ask a question from the accomplishments question. How do we get from what I'm seeing? A lot of our tension, a lot of our anxiety comes from a lot of us just watching television, because a lot of the programs there they're not really helping us to do exactly what you're talking about. So how do we challenge that?

Speaker 2: 31:30

You know oftentimes what I will say to people, especially if you already feel like kind of keyed up in your physical body. I will say turn off the TV and put down the phone, because there are things that we are exposed to in media that before we know it, you know, we're escalated because we didn't know what was happening, we don't know all the circumstances. Some of it is traumatic and especially you know. So the book came out three. The first book came out three weeks before the murder of George Floyd and you couldn't get away from those images, you know, like they were everywhere and in a lot of ways it was disrespectful to him and his family for him to be out there. But for us, you know, vicarious trauma is a thing and there are statistics that actually show that months after some event you see elevated anxiety among African Americans, and we know that it's distinct because they're gathering data for everyone. But you see that our anxiety is elevated because of what's happened to someone else in the community, and so we have to be, you know, and it's hard, I know it's hard. I can personally say I've tried to turn on apps on my phone to track. You know what I was doing and I pick up the phone and I go shoot because of the habit. So we have to be aware of our habits and start to just cut back. You know, I know it's hard to say like, ok, don't, don't look at any of it. But if we can say, you know, ok, if I'm on the phone three hours out of a day, between breaks and the end of the day in the morning, I'm going to cut back and say I'm going to do two and a half OK, and it sounds like OK, two and a half hours, that's still. That's still a lot.

Speaker 2: 33:13

But we have to make incremental change and one of the things that happens both with our physical and mental health is that we try to go from zero to 100. But that never works. And so someone gets from zero to 50. And I'm thinking, oh, you get a A, you know, if you can get from zero to 50, because that shows progress. And unfortunately folks feel like, well, I can't do all the things, then I can't do any of the things. And I do that in the workbook. I try to encourage progress rather than we got to go all the way to 100. Just make progress Any other. Hello, you looking for us. Well, you want to talk about Black mental health? Come on in. Yeah, oh, that's, hey, I don't have my glasses on. Come on in.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Come sit. Any other questions yes.

Speaker 6: 34:22

Hi Dr Walker.

Speaker 5: 34:23

Hello.

Speaker 6: 34:23

Hello. So I really appreciate you writing the book. It's spoken out to me in many different ways Not quite as dense as medical apartheid, or as specific to veterans, as the body knows the score. So this is the perfect medium for accessibility and I really appreciate that. I just want to say that.

Speaker 2: 34:49

Thank you.

Speaker 6: 34:51

So my question is in the book you mentioned a difference between how depression manifests generationally, so like a previous generation versus the next generation, so on and so forth. Can you touch on that a little bit more? Because I think in the book you mentioned how the whole having no shoes on or anything, climbing up to the top of a mountain in the pouring rain or snow Apologies, I'm just kind of drawing a blank.

Speaker 5: 35:30

That's.

Speaker 6: 35:31

OK, and having support and having like a support and that kind of thing, how would you go about, I guess, advising people nowadays, in this current generation, how to kind of come over that hump or to overcome it?

Speaker 2: 35:46

Well, one thing I will say and I do appreciate that question because it ties for me. It ties to psychological fortitude, and I introduced that. So the clinical psychologist in me recognizes that we always have to start with assessment. We have to start with trying to understand what's happening. So many of us will try to come up with solutions before we know what the problem is.

Speaker 2: 36:08

And not everyone has the language even of depression. They just maybe they feel low or maybe they feel empty on the inside. And so when you start with just your rating, your psychological fortitude rating and so I introduced that because we don't always have to use the language of depression, because I know for a lot of folks, depression, anxiety, trauma, all those things it's like what does that really mean? And so for an individual who, as an example, is hovering at about a five or a lower on a 10 point scale I also talk in the book about ABCs and when you see someone who's struggling, the way that you can approach them to be the most helpful. I saw you nodding your head when I was saying folks are basically folks can be kind of judgy, and that's not helpful to be judgy, especially if someone is struggling. And so if someone you see, someone who seems to be struggling, someone you care about, or you know someone has been through something. So maybe they don't look like what they've been going through, because we're really good at looking like everything is fine, but you know they've been through something that we can approach young people with. Hey, I know you just had a breakup. I just want you to know I'm here, how are you doing, what's your PF? And that person is able to give a rating and maybe the rating's a seven. You're like OK, great, and y'all just high five and keep it moving. But if that rating is like a five or lower, then you say, hey, you want to go. What if it's a young person, 21 or older? Hey, you want to go to happy hour. Hey, you want to get some lunch. Do something to demonstrate that you're dedicated and devoted to them in that moment, because y'all know we live in a society where folks are on their phones, folks are distracted with everything else, a lot of people are overworked, some people are dealing with their own low PF. But if we can do better to connect as a society, meet people where they are, if they don't want to talk about the thing that's upsetting them, that's fine. Talk to them about what's going on in your life as a distraction and they may feel like, ok, well, if you're willing to open up to me, then OK, I can try this with you.

Speaker 2: 38:25

And I think, on the one hand and I talk in the book about just the different ways that depression shows up I remember I said as an undergraduate student I didn't think that mental health looked in the psychology book like what we do, or at least what I thought was probably depression and instead we think of depression as low mood, not wanting to get out the bed, and that's a very traditional kind of depression. But in the African-American community somebody could have holding down they're holding down two jobs, taking care of everybody. They're smiling most of the time and they could still be depressed. Because our depression can show up differently and that's another reason why I introduce this notion of PF Are you able to take care of yourself?

Speaker 2: 39:08

Are you able to go to work? Are you tapped into? Why you're here? If someone can say yes to all those things, they're probably at an eight or higher and that's all we need to know and we don't necessarily have to categorize it as the depression or anxiety. It helps to have that language, to be honest, because if someone does see a professional, then you can get reimbursement and things of that nature. But if we just focus on people's ability to function, are you functioning at peak capacity? And if you are great. If you're not, let's sit down, let's grab a chapter from the book, or let's see if we can go online and figure out how to get a professional for you so that you can get some long term care. Did that help?

Speaker 3: 39:51

OK, very good, yes, this kind of goes into what he was talking about with support, but I was thinking about more with family. And if you're dealing with depression and just family, just trying to get them to understand what you're going through, and especially when they don't want to talk about it or if it's a guilt, I mean, is there something that can be said where you're not putting down a family member?

Speaker 2: 40:25

So you're saying the family member could probably use some help, but they're resistant to it?

Speaker 3: 40:32

I mean, you're just telling them what you're going through, ok, so OK, just with depression. Oh, I'm depressed, I'm going through this, going through that, and it causes guilt for them.

Speaker 5: 40:44

For the person who's struggling.

Speaker 3: 40:46

Like, for example, like a mother, like, let's just say for example, I'm telling my mother I'm depressed and I'm going through this stuff and it causes guilt because she's thinking could I have done something differently? Could?

Speaker 2: 40:59

I have done this.

Speaker 3: 41:00

Could I have done that? I mean, what's the best way to handle that? Because I mean you want to tell them what you're going through, but you don't want to cause anyone to feel bad about your.

Speaker 2: 41:14

I follow you and that's a fascinating thing, right, like someone's having a tough time but they've got to help the other person and it's like can I just get some help for me and for those kinds of conversations. Being specific is how you kind of bridge that. Because once for some of us, and depending on who we're talking to, once we use language of depression or anxiety, they kind of part of their brain just like shuts down, like ooh, and then the exit strategy is was it me? And it's like wait, that's not even the conversation that we're having. And so, as an example, saying something like hey, do you have some time to just go to them all? Or can you just sit with me while I try and figure out this thing? Because you know like the mind is cloudy and when our mind is cloudy our PF is low, we struggle. I'm trying to figure out this thing. Can you just help me with this and not even use any of the other language, because it truly does get to be a distraction. Unfortunately, now that puts pressure on the person who's having a tough time, because now they may not know what they need, and so, trying to help the other person, it might be worth it to pivot to somebody else, so trying the thing that is like, ok, this is what I need from you, because, at the end of the day, communication is more effective and we can tell people what we need from them rather than hoping that they figure it out or that they can do what we need for them to do. But if that works, great. But sometimes it helps to just pivot to someone else.

Speaker 2: 42:58

When we talk to, when we have our client caseload and we're working with people who have a history of being in crisis, which means that they could end up in trouble again, we talk to them about who are the people who you can talk to about this crisis Like, know that beforehand and who are the people who can just make you laugh. And you just talk to those people and they don't need to know what's going on, you just know that they're a good time. And so before you're in a place where you're struggling, it's good to know who people are. And we know who the people are. We know when we're honest. We say things to ourselves like should and for those of you who read the whole book, should is not a part of my vocabulary, but we say, well, they should be able to help me, but that's not helpful to say what a person should be able to do. It's their true capacity, thank you. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1: 43:57

Any other questions before I ask mine? No, no questions. Ok, so we'll end on mine on that note. Let's end on a light note. So can you tell us three things that incite joy for you when you are struggling with your mental health? It could be things, practices, whichever.

Speaker 2: 44:18

Well, I'll tell you a funny one. I like music, and I'll just tell you all, because we're a family here, right? Is this going to be on the website? Maybe, but we're still family.

Speaker 1: 44:31

We keep it real Life looks matter, you know.

Speaker 2: 44:34

So I like to listen to my music loud. You know the music with the bass in it. I just you know, I'm from Georgia. I'm like let's go. And there have been times when I just got to go, sit in the car and turn the music up loud. And there is one occasion where, after I came back in the house, my son was like mama, you OK, because he knows when I need a moment, I just go to the car, turn it all the way up where I need to.

Speaker 2: 45:01

I got to set a song and you have to have your playlist. You know, I have my playlist set up. I got my gospel, I got the ratchet, I got the slow jams. I got what I need for that, for whatever the moment is. So I would say music is the first thing.

Speaker 2: 45:15

The other thing that I am mindful of just like all the time, because we have to be doing things all the time. You know we can't wait until the struggle happens, and I've been doing this for years. Someone shared it with me that you know when I'm in the shower, I don't get in the shower like I got on my clothes and I'm going to work, because a lot of us get in the shower and we start thinking about everybody that got on our nerves, everything we haven't done or, if it's in the morning, everything you have to do that day, rather than just being in the shower Like you don't even have to go to the spa, you can just be in there, get your nice smelly things and just enjoy yourself in the shower. So those are the two main things and I think probably the third thing is writing, and I talk in the workbook about this. That is when stuff happens.

Speaker 2: 46:09

Oftentimes we just start replaying that thing in our head Like was it me, was it them? Why did they do that? They get on my last nerve. You know like we have these conversations with ourselves in our own heads and I think sometimes we do that because we hope we can problem solve it. Like I'm going to answer this question for myself. It doesn't work Like notice the next time you it's called ruminating. Notice the next time you do it Like is it? Do you make progress with it? Once I start doing that, I catch myself. Usually pretty quickly. I start writing OK, now what was the thing that upset me the most? Because that's what you write. You don't summarize what the situation was you start with what was most upsetting about that thing, and it never fails to get me to the next step. I guess I could have ended with the music, because that would have been the fun part, it's all right.

Speaker 1: 46:59

Well, you can tell us one of your latest songs that you blasted in the car.

Speaker 2: 47:04

To end on a nice note, oh, it's one of the Beyonce songs, that's not. It didn't get a whole lot of airtime. I don't think it was Shining Beyonce with.

Speaker 1: 47:14

DJ Khaled. Yeah, dj Khaled. Yeah, it's Shining. Ok, respect Beehive in the business. You know, Can I get another round of applause for Dr Walker here? Discover a world where words ignite change. Tune in to Black Books Matter, the podcast, where we celebrate the profound impact of African-American literature. Join us as we delve into iconic works and hidden gems, discussing their power to shape minds and transform societies. Get ready for thought-provoking discussions, author interviews and insights that matter. Don't miss out. Subscribe to Black Books Matter the podcast and your favorite podcast platform, and let the voices of African-American authors resonate with you.